PDR - Male Additional information - Breeding behavior??

[parrots3]

MODERATOR'S NOTE: By request from Board particpants, I have moved this topic in its entirety to the PDR. I have changed the title from "Breeding behavior??" to PDR - Male Additional information - Breeding behavior?? No other edits have been made.
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MNAP
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My male SI ekkie is 4 yrs old. Just within the last few months he started to get very....
'friendly' towards me and my husband. He wouldn't regurgitate or
anything, but would squat down almost flat, and sit on our shoulders and nip at us.
Not hard enough to draw blood or anything, but enough to be uncomfortable and annoying. At first we didn't do much about it except
reprimand him and if he didn't stop, we'd take him off our shoulder and return him to the playstand or cage.
Joking around, we started to occasionally refer to him as "Mr. Humpy".

Then it got worse.
Now he is constantly in a state of jumping, flying (as best as he can- he is clipped) or lunging to get onto us.
He never sits nicely with us anymore, it's always a situation of humping on us, nipping at us, and getting
very very angry when we try to stop his behavior.
As soon as we try to stop him from climbing to our shoulders, or try to get him OFF our shoulder if he's
gotten there somehow, he gets aggressive.
He claws us, he bites at us (not just 'nips') and will NOT stop rubbing on us the entire time we're fighting
to get him off us and back to his stand or cage!

What is up with this?? Is this typical breeding behavior?

Another odd behavior along with this is his reluctance to talk anymore.
He used to be very chatty- talking to my other parrot that
shares a room with him (for years) and just talking in general.
But for the last 4-5 weeks now, he's hardly said a word!
I still get "Night Night Birdie!" when I cover his cage at night, but that's
literally the ONLY thing he's saying anymore.

Does this bird "need" to breed? I would surely hate to part with him,
but since I have no desire to breed birds myself, I would- for his own sake- sell him to an experienced breeder,
rather than see him become neurotic because we can't interact
with him like we used to.

Any suggestions or comments??

Parrots3

[MaryNat]

Hi!

Your little green man is displaying what in the wild would be normal courtship/breeding behavior. Is he primarily nipping you on the nose or ears? There are some things you can do to manage the behavior -

Do you cuddle him (such as by hugging him in an enveloping hug), pet him down his back, along the back of his neck, under his wings, near his tail or kiss his beak (especially with a buzzing kiss)?

If you do any of these things, it would be wise to stop. These areas are parrot erogenous zones and petting or kissing in these areas is likely to stimulate an Eclectus. Once you stop, he will be very grumpy and insistent that you should resume this...resist.

You can touch him lightly on his beak, on his feet and be affectionate in "non-enveloping" ways. When he is not in a hormone cycle, you can resume the above but in a limited amount so that you do not inadvertently stimulate him.

To discourage him from climbing onto your shoulder, try picking him up with your upper arm parallel to your side (straight down at your side) and your forearm parallel to the floor (horizontal) but at an angle away from your body a bit. Parrots will often prefer NOT to climb up your vertical forearm. Hold him in a position in front of your body at a level between your heart and chin and talk to him and praise him. You can hold him higher than that if you wish, but holding him lower helps prevent him from leaning forward and climbing onto your shoulder or reaching your nose or ears.

It is important, IMHO, that any time you try to remove him from you or distract him from his amorous advances that you do so with a very happy, calm, gentle expression on your face and in your tone of voice. This is to help to reduce the likelihood that his testosterone levels may increase due to what he may perceive as a challenge. Birds (and possibly parrots) in the wild maintain as low testosterone levels as they can (testosterone is "expensive"), and the levels increase dramatically and quickly whenever the birds believe they "need" it - such as during a challenge.

If you include spirulina in his diet, or any added vitamins, please discontinue these unless they have been specifically prescribed by an avian veterinarian who has determined the need for them via medical tests. Eclectus breeders and owners observe that added vitamins appear to increase screaming, biting and "hyperactive" behavior. Ensure his diet contains alot of fresh foods, especially those rich in carotenoids - which are the red/orange/yellow vegetables and fruits, and deep-green/leafy vegetables.

To help him expend his energy (which may be increased during hormonal times), offer foods whole, in large pieces or in large dice as applicable. Thread foods onto a stainless steel bird-food-kabob to encourage and simulate foraging activity (which a male Eclectus in the wild would do to feed himself and his mate and may be behind the increased energy). There is a section of this message board called the PDR (Polly's Desk Reference) that has a post about food toys that you may find very helpful for your little green man right now. Increase his activity level with additional climbing and flapping exercises.

It is not uncommon for Eclectus to reduce or stop talking during strong hormonal seasons. Talking resumes as the cycle subsides.

There are also PDR posts about male Eclectus hormonal behavior, distracting a hormonal Eclectus and about hormonal screaming that may also contain information of help to you. One important thing is to always be non-chalant when distracting or discouraging his amorous behavior - he thinks he is doing something good by encouraging his beloved family to be his mates - it can confuse him if he thinks his efforts upset you...so always pretend your distraction technique is completely unrelated to his activities - that you were "just now" going to play, sing, walk around, etc anyway).

He does not "need" to breed - he is responding to changes in his hormones. His hormones will tend to cycle. What part of the world do you live in? Where we live, our SIs have four hormone cycles per year- two strong and two less strong. Be patient, gentle, upbeat and consistent in distracting him from his attentions he is unlikely to be upset or "become neurotic". Keep in mind that at first, he is likely to be cranky and grumpy when he does not get to "have his way" - but once you have the techniques down, that should pass.

How much dark, quiet, uninterrupted sleep does he receive each night?

Please let us know how the above work for you and if you have any questions.

Al and Mary
Cabby and Chardy (SIE)

[chapklc]

Wow! this is a really old post, however, it seems to go right along with some questions that I had regarding my SI 1 1/2 year old male. I thought I had read many times and different places, that the eclectus do not normally bond with their human companions. My Maki is doing just that. Yucky... he has done this twice on me, and I just smile and kindly wipe it away. And as the person mentioned above, he has quit talking and he is doing that squating thing generally on my hand all the while gently nipping at me. At first, I thought he was just playing, then I started to think it was possibly sexual.

And yes, according to this post, I've been stroking his neck, his back, under the wing, however, I do not spending many minutes do this.

When we adopted Maki, he was not really socialized. Of course he would let us hold him but we really could not even stroke his back, and over the course of the last 5 months, he has changed considerably. The words the previous owner said was, "he's not really lovey or cuddly!" Now while cuddly is a heavy word, he loves to be touched and caressed. So maybe i've over done it.

The previous post mentions that the SI go through 4 hormonal cycles. Unless he stops/starts this behaviour, how would I know he's going through this?

I've also noted that he is bonding to only me... Although, I encourage the other three family members to be invovled, but he tends to run and attack them. Should I keep asking them to be persistant?

Any help here... Thanks.

[MaryNat]

Hi!

It sounds to me like your little green man is entering adolescence. Eighteen months of age is "right on time" for a male SI to enter adolescence. We have a post at the PDR (Polly's Desk Reference) forum of the message board that is about male Eclectus hormonal behavior that may offer you some insights into the behaviors. The beginning of the post is about trustbuilding, but you may find that interesting as well. There is another post there about distracting hormonal Eclectus that you may also find helpful. Please review them when you have a minute and let us know if you have questions.

As far as your little boy chasing everyone...yes, that is mate guarding behavior...he has chosen you as his mate and is chasing potential rivals away/protecting you.

IMHO, please do not pet him down his back at all. Since he is now adolescent, it could be stimulating him. Try stroking him on his feet and beak...even teach him the words for these when you touch him....touch his feet and say "feet" and when you touch his beak say "beak" remember to use a happy tone of voice and a big smile when you say the words to help him to be itnerested in saying them.

Keep him active in "physical activities" like flapping excerises, climbing and foraging (foraging toys and food toys are good ideas for keeping him physically busy and active).

We hope this information is of help to you.

Al and Mary
Cabby and Chardy (SIE)

[jpw06c]

Hi--

my question is similar to those above. I have an 8 year old SI eclectus (Gizo), and have had him for about 3 years. the people i bought him from sold him because he had a severe humping and regurgitation problem. everytime he comes into season now, he becomes obsessed with humping and feeding his perches to the point that it becomes pathological. i have tried every trick i could think of to get him to stop. i have provided him with new toys, moved his cage, "dark therapy" (which my avian vet recomended to give him extra dark time for sleep). he has a perch which is attached to the top of his cage which he humps to the point i am afraid he will bruise himself. but when i lock him up, he only continues to hump and feed the perches inside the cage. he usually will not hump me, as i have never tolerated him humping me, however i live with my mother, who does not stop him from humping her. lately it has seemed that his "season" is all of the time. while i know that i hug and kiss him, and that can contribute, i do not do it enough for it to affect his behavior in such a large way. i love this bird so much, and i feel like he just isnt happy. i am afraid that his excessive humping is his way of expressing boredom or frustration. he does not play with toys, he has thousands of toys, i have researched all the types of toys ekkies like, and have provided him with as many as he wants, however he just ignores them, or feeds them. he tends to spend the majority of his day humping and feeding. he is allowed to be out of his cage all day in a birdie-proof room, with either soft music playing, or children's cartoons on. my mother has suggested that we get another bird to keep him company, but i do not think this will solve the problem. many people have suggested getting him a girlfriend, but i am against breeding, and am afraid it will make him more aggressive anyway. if anyone could please help me come up with a solution, i would greatly appreciate it!

Jessica

[jpw06c]

Gizo is on pretty bird eclectus pellets, is given a variety of nuts and veges daily. he gets a little seed for a snack because he loves it so much. he is on L-carnatine and Milk Thistle because he has a liver enzyme problem, which my avian vet has recommended him to be on for life. when he was a baby, he did have kidney problems and almost died, so this has been an ongoing problem. i doubt that this is related, but i thought id add that in just in case. other than those things, Gizo is not on any other supplement.

Jessica

[MaryNat]

hi!

Please let us know the percentages of his diet (what he actually eats) that are pellets, greens, vegetables, fruits, seeds/nuts, sprouts (approximate percentages of each, please).

Also, please let me know about his daylength/light quality...what time of day does the sun come up where you are and what time does it go down (or just tell me the country and state/province you live in and I can figure it out). Does he have supplemental lighting? If so, how long is it on (what time does it go on and what time off?) What time of day does he "wake up" and what time does he go to bed? Are humans in the home up for a long time after he goes to bed? Is his room dark and quiet when he goes to bed or is his cage located near human evening activities?

How often does he receive a gentle, rainlike shower with lukewarm water and become thoroughly wet (there is a reason for this question)...?

Are there times when his behavior is better? When are those times/how far apart do they seem to be?

Is his molt OK?

It sounds like he is stuck in breeding season....maybe with too much testosterone. If we can identify his trigger, we may be able to offer tips to help him to "cycle out" of it.

Does he defend a cage, perch, place or people? Is he consistently aggressive in any particular location?

Is there anything in his room, cage or play area that looks remotely like a female Eclectus...dark "eyes" black "beak", or is patterned in any way like a female Eclectus?

Does anyone in the home use perfume or scented products or air fresheners? If so, what ones?

Please let us know.

Al and Mary
Cabby and Chardy (SIE)

[MoreGooder]

I've read the above posts entirely, so now I'm very curious. Do all Ekkies get this extreme when they become mature? Or, are these exceptional cases that brought about the posts to the forums?

[MoreGooder]

Oh, I forgot:

Perhaps wearing red clothing would be ill advised around a male Ekky, and likewise grean for a female. True?

[jpw06c]

Gizo is fed about 1/4 cup of pretty bird eclectus pellets in the morning with a few peanuts, or brazil nuts or walnuts or any other type of nut, a small ammount of seed for a treat, usually some rice or pasta and cooked veges at night. he is also fed bits of fruit, usually not everyday, or is alternated with pasta.

bedtime is usually between 9 and 9:30. the sun around her goes down close to 8. he wakes up between 8 and 7 in the morning, occasionally later. he has his own room, where he is allowed to have the cartoons on softly during the day, and at night, if other people are still awake, his location in the house is not disturbed. he does have supplemental lighting during the day and until bed time, but it is definitely turned off when time for bed, he is put in his cage, and it is usually covered.

he is not alone alot. i have odd hours that i work and go to class, so there are usually 4-5 hour periods where he is alone, but never more than that, as i live with my parents, and they are alot of times home before i am. he is never locked up in his cage during the day. his room is birdie proof, and he is allowed to be out on top of his cage or play stand during the day until bedtime.

i cant really think of anything in the room that resembles a female eclectus, other than a red stuffed parrot that he absolutely hates (he growls at it if it is placed in sight).

He is not aggressive. i want to stress that. he does not bite at all. he does not defend anything. the only time he ever growls is if he sees the stuffed bird, or if you are feeding him something from a bowl and take it away, in which he growls for you to bring it back. his only issue is the humping and feeding, which becomes obsessive. he only molts once a year, and has not had one this year. he is allowed in the shower if i get in before his bed time, which is about once a week.

in an unrelated xray, it did show up that his testicles were very visible, which is unusual for this to be seen so clearly in an xray.

Gizo seems to have hormone problems for a few months at a time, but it isnt constant. as right now, he is on my shoulder, relaxed. i am afraid he is humping and vomiting out of boredom, unfortunately he ignores all toys provided.

we do not use any type of scented candles, perfumes ect around the bird, as i have heard that it is very bad for their little air sacs.

Thank you for any help you can provide on this issue.

Jessica

[MaryNat]

Hi MoreGooder...

No, the problems are not common...typically problems are milder or transient, or people are able to modify or manage the behavior once hormonal behaviors are understood....

But at message boards we tend to see questions from people who are having problems...either because they do not have the information to resolve the problem (such as learning about hormonal behavior) or they have tried to modify the behavior and are unsuccessful for varying reasons...or because the problem is extreme, as it sounds like in this case.

Most people do not post to message boards or even internet lists if they are not experiencing a problem or have a question about food, or other Eclectus related topic....so that skews the perception to making it look like Eclectus have alot of problems when really as a group, they don't.

Sometimes birds get "stuck" in a breeding cycle. Sometimes we can help with tips and sometimes we can at least provide information that the person can use to discuss the problem with an avian vet when discussing a treatment plan. There is alot we do not understand about the hormonal triggers of Eclectus parrots, for breeding or molting, since as Equitorial birds, the triggers of big shifts in daylength and food supply, for example, do not apply as clearly as they might for birds that are evolved in areas of the world where changes in these factors are more easily identified (temperate zone birds, for example).

Al and Mary
Cabby and Chardy (SIE)

[MaryNat]

Hi!

Your avian vet's X-ray seems to confirm my suspicion that he is stuck in his courtship and breeding cycle.

Birds, including parrots, have very definite hormone cycles and during these cycles, different hormones are "in charge" of the bird's system. During courtship, testosterone is prevalent in male Eclectus...testosterone is a hormone that helps a male become big and strong and beautiful and it increases the size of his reproductive organs. When birds are not in a breeding cycle, their reproductive organs reduce in size - probably as part of the process of staying streamlined for flying, and also because testosterone focuses alot of energy on breeding and away from mate care, chick rearing, foraging, and keeping the immune system strong.

Testosterone stimulates acquiring a territory and attracting and breeding with a female. In Eclectus part of the courtship aspect of the breeding cycle is feeding the female, and mating with her. It sounds like that is where your little green man is "stuck".

What part of the world do you live in?

In many birds that evolved in parts of the world where there are very definite changes in seasons and daylength, birds can be helped through "stuck places" in the hormone cycle by changing the daylength...that is, the length of daytime and nighttime, and also in how bright the daylight is (light intensity). For example, if you live in Washington State, daylength can be 17 hours in the Summer and can be very short during the Winter (between short daylength and cloudy skies it can be very short indeed!). The closer to the Poles you go, the more pronounced these changes become. At the Equator, day and night are about the same length no matter what time of the year it is. (However, some and maybe all Equatorial birds have evolved to be very sensitive to even this small change...researchers have documented sensitivity to 12 minutes or less of daylength change in the Equatorial Spotted Antbird of South America).

But in Washington, even though days can be longer in summer and shorter in winter than at the Equator, light intensity is never going to be as strong at noon on the longest day of the year in Washington as it is at noon at the Equator...because the Sun's rays are more oblique closer to the poles and more direct at the Equator.

OK...this does not mean that Equatorial Eclectus are exposed to glaring sunlight 12 hours a day...on the contrary, they live in forests, so have shade...but the daylight and light intensity of their surroundings still exist.

Birds have body clocks that are driven by certain factors in the environment, such as daylength, light intensity, food availability and even rainfall to help to regulate their hormones.

This explains a bit why your vet was interested in giving Gizo some "darkness" therapy...to try to re-set his body clock and move him out of his breeding cycle.

It also helps when looking at his normal sleep/wake cycle in his home environment as that may also offer clues.

Wild Eclectus have about 11 hours of daylight, a very short "dawn" and "dusk" and about 11 hours of darkness. Eclectus are free breeding, especially SIs, which are evolved closer to the Equator- where days and nights and food availability is similar most of the time. In these areas, small shifts in daylength and the onset of the rainy season seem to regulate breeding cycles.

Taking this hint from nature, it may be possible to try a few things to help your little green man get "unstuck" from his breeding cycle.

Try to keep his days and nights approximately equal in length. That is, try to wake him up at about 7-7:30AM and let him go to bed in a dark, quiet room at about 7:30-8:00PM. If you cover his cage at night, try turning on his room light for about 5 minutes prior to uncovering him, and at night, leave his room light on about 10 minutes after you cover him. Let the morning "dawn" be shorter than than the evening one.

Review the PDR (Polly's Desk Reference) forum post about Living with Hormonal Eclectus - Distraction. Then, try practicing these distraction techniques. Then, ask you mom if she will also read and practice the techniques.

In addition to reducing light triggers, IMHO it is necessary to reduce his sexual triggers. Since Eclectus are free breeding, if he thinks he is still mating, and he has opportunities to mate, his body may continue to allow him to do this...you distract him, but if your mom does not, his body may still think he has chances to be a daddy and will keep letting him try...if your mom also gently distracts him from his mating behavior, his body may get the idea that the opportunities are done for the "season" and it is time for him to cycle OUT of "breeding mode".

So so far we have looked at daylight triggers, opportunity triggers...now we need food and rainfall triggers.

Food -
He receives Pretty Bird Eclectus Special pellets? Try slowly reducing these as well as reduce the proportions of nuts and seeds in favor of more fresh foods. Pretty Bird Eclectus Special pellets have fructose, which may taste sweet. Because they are pellets, they are also nutritionally dense and are fortified with vitamins, etc. Gizo's body may be telling him that he has lots and lots of easily accessible, highly nutritious food with which to support a mate and chicks.

The goal is to help his body to cycle out of breeding mode by making food more work to get and process. This means more fresh foods like greens, vegetables, peppers, fruits like guava, apples, kiwi etc. that are in large dice (and eventually even in chunks or whole, depending on the item) that he has to work more to eat. It takes more work to chew into a big piece of guava to pick out the little seeds, open the seeds and get out the seed's interior (that Eclectus really like) than it does to go to the dish and eat the pellets. It takes more work to bite into a crunchy beet greens or dandelion greens stem and chew up the tasty stem than to go to the dish and eat the pellet. It even takes more work to take a bite out of an apple, peel it and juice up the flesh of the apple or broccoli stem...etc...you get the idea.

Try threading chunks of fresh foods onto a stainless steel bird food kabob and hang it in his cage near a perch with good footing....this is alot like foraging and may help him leave his breeding mode while having fun eating food from the kabob!

So by providing food that takes more effort to process and eat can help him to get out of breeding mode.

Of course, you don't want to make the change so quickly that it upsets him. Start slowly...reduce pellets increase fresh foods..ensure he is eating the fresh foods....reduce pellets some more, increase fresh foods some more...ensure he is eating...etc.

Now the rainfall trigger.
How many showers does he receive each week on average? If less than three, try adding one more shower to his routine during the week to simulate the beginning of the rainy season. This, along with more equal daylight, greater rest, reduced mating opportunities and more foraging may address the triggers that will help his body and his body clocks to recognize that it is time to stop breeding and go into a rest cycle.

These adjustments will not work over night, but they should start to work. For many Eclectus this is the end of the strong breeding cycle of Spring. A weak cycle will be coming up, but if your Eclectus is like ours, the next strong cycle probably will not occur until Fall...So this may be the perfect time to start these changes - a time when, if he were a wild Eclectus, he might be going out of a breeding cycle anyway.

Give these ideas a try and keep us posted!

Al and Mary
Cabby and Chardy (SIE)